The Centre For Social Cohesion – A Zionist Deception
On the BBC’s “Sunday Morning Live”, the director of “The Centre For Social Cohesion”, Douglas Murray, was wheeled out as an apologist for Israel.
The question was “David Cameron causes a stir by calling Gaza a “prison camp”. So is it time for a franker dialogue with the Jewish state? Or are we already too critical of Israel?”
Mad, Bad And Dangerous
Murray tried to defend Israel’s actions in Gaza, in particular coming out with the latest Zioinst propaganda about shopping malls and the “luxury” that Gaza’s inhabitants enjoy.
I agree with David Cameron’s words entirely. I would make just one slight correction. I would call Gaza a “concentration camp” just to make the similarity with the Nazis absolutely clear.
I can only assume that “The Centre For Social Cohesion” is Murray’s personal plaything. It surely cannot be a serious organisation. It is difficult to imagine anyone giving this joker any sort of responsible job. What more pompous and inaccurate title could there be for an organisation that he has anything to do with? He must have made it up himself.
Drivel
It styles itself as “a non-partisan think-tank that studies issues related to community cohesion in the UK. Committed to the promotion of human rights, it is the first think-tank in the UK to specialise in studying radicalisation and extremism within Britain”.
What, with Douglas Murray as its director? How utterly, excruciatingly absurd. His attitudes are as far away from socially cohesive, non-partisan and promoting human rights as it is possible to imagine.
Can the name of this organisation or what it says about itself be covered by the Trades Descriptions Act?
What can right-thinking, honourable and truthful people do to defeat such deception?
Expose him and his organisation for the pariahs that they are. Complain to the BBC here and tell them that we are looking for truth on our televisions, not deception, propaganda and lies.
Peter Reynolds 
Not sure Peter about the Concentratoin Camp as the purpose of such a camp is to kill people and nothing else.
Johanna Kaschke
August 1, 2010 at 7:02 pm
Well… You may well have divined what they’d really like to be able to do there…
Peter Reynolds
August 1, 2010 at 7:29 pm
you mean the gazans to the israelis, don’t you?
walter benjamin
August 2, 2010 at 5:31 am
What do you mean Walter? Please make yourself clear.
Peter Reynolds
August 2, 2010 at 11:17 am
No Johanna. From Wikipedia:
A concentration camp is a prison camp used to confine persons considered dangerous by a government or military ruler.[5] They have been used in times of war to detain, punish, or, as in Nazi Germany, kill large numbers of people.[5] The Random House Dictionary defines the term as: “a guarded compound for the detention or imprisonment of aliens, members of ethnic minorities, political opponents, etc.”, and, the American Heritage Dictionary defines it thus: “A camp where civilians, enemy aliens, political prisoners, and sometimes prisoners of war are detained and confined, typically under harsh conditions.” Finally, the Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines it as: “a camp where persons (as prisoners of war, political prisoners, or refugees) are detained or confined.”
An absolutely proper descriptiion of Gaza. I prefer to use the term concentration camp rather than prison camp because it more effectively highlights the terrible irony of the neo-Nazi Israeli state. From being the victim of the world’s greatest ever crime against humanity, Israel has become as big and cowardly a bully as the world has ever seen.
I concede that the Israelis aren’t running an orgainsed extermination programme on the Palestinians. It’s a disorganised, sporadic programme of murder and destruction perpertrated as and when it suits them.
Peter Reynolds
August 2, 2010 at 1:15 pm
The purpose of a concentration camp is to keep people enclosed (Concentrated)in a confined space .
Eoghan
August 7, 2010 at 3:38 am
Yes, that’s exactly what’s happening in Gaza.
buddyhell
August 23, 2011 at 8:41 am
The resumes of contributors to the Centre for Social Cohesion are far more impressive than your own.
Other than a seriously lacking opinion, on what factual evidence do you predicate your remarks?
SC&A
August 1, 2010 at 7:24 pm
Have you seen mine? What qualifies you to be so pompous?
Your opinion, that mine is “seriously lacking”, is your own. I can think of nothing more worth saying about it.
The factual evidence is contained here on the iPlayer where you can watch “Sunday Morning Live” and the disgraceful, graceless and ignorant behaviour of Douglas Murray.
Peter Reynolds
August 1, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Yes, I have seen your ‘credentials’- or rather lack thereof. Admittedly, Google may not be complete but I don’t imagine the highlights would be omitted.
That you seriously believe and propagate the notion that Gaza is a ‘concentration camp’ is absurd- even if you take some kind of perverse poetic license. Further, the BBC is hardly a fountain of equitable coverage on the Middle East- as their own investigations have shown. That you take them at their word without caveat is most telling.
The Israelis, despite their profound military and technological advantages have proved to be remarkably ineffective when it comes to committing genocide.
While there is much to be critical of the Israelis when it comes to the Palestinians, to accuse them of the same kind genocide as Nazi Germany is ridiculous.
I do fond it interesting that nowhere do you mention the bigotry, racism and hate that is part and parcel of the Arab and Palestinian reality. Every day, in media, school curriculum and often preached from pulpits are some of the most vicious and hate found anywhere on the face of the earth today.
Perhaps in your world the common refrain of ‘We’ll finish what Hitler started’ is acceptable. Perhaps the Hamas kindergarten ditty, ‘HAMAS! HAMAS! Jews to the gas!’ is suitable to you. I can provide you with well documented examples.
The UN, NATO, EU, Quartet, et al, have all stated the grounds for peace in teh region will be predicated on three point- hard facts, as it were.
*Cessation of violence.
*Diplomatic recognition.
*Secure borders.
Which of those things are too onerous a burden for the Palestinians and the Arab world?
SC&A
August 1, 2010 at 11:14 pm
Dear initials,
I agree that the BBC is notorious for its
Osirak
August 24, 2011 at 8:33 am
Peter Reynolds suggests complaining to the BBC about Douglas Murray…the BBC..??? the good old lefty organ for cringing liberal sycophants !!….So, as a lefty,limp ,liberal, Peter, it will be impossible for you to understand a society such as Israel that has the insolence to defend itself….perhaps if you had the gravitas and intelligence of Douglas Murray it would be worth my time explaining Israeli aims and intentions..It would be better if you worried about the fate of Great Britain, remember her ???, soon and surely to be Islamised surreptitiously while the self appointed liberal intelligentsia, Polly Toynbee,Claire Short,George Galloway,Paddy Ashdown YOU,Ken Livingstone and others of that cringing ilk clutch your holy Qurans to your, oh so liberal, hearts and exude brotherly love and inclusion for the religion of “love”..Islam…lets hope the Mullahs reward your treacherous idiocy…………so, Peter,be a good kuffar and scurry off on your first Haj…join others who blame Israel for the woes of the poor Islamic ummah………..you must glory in the Parekh report which demands that England and the English must be regarded as a place not a race…..you are beneath contempt…infandous……inshallah !!!
steve omara
August 18, 2011 at 1:18 am
A “lefty”? That alone demonstartes what a nincompoop you are! You’re a deluded, paranoid, nutjob. Takes your ridiculous, rambling gibberish and slink away into oblivion. Israel is a wonderful society governed by avaricious, Godless, Nazionists and I see you’ve already got your jackboots on.
Peter Reynolds
August 18, 2011 at 6:19 am
Hi Peter…yes,Israel is a wonderful society and will remain so because it recognises and rightly ignores liberal western windbags such as yourself who clamber on the “lets bash Israel “bandwagon in order to appeal to populist British morons, most of whom could not even put a pin in a map to indicate where the damn place is….Have you been there???………do you know how much each sabra,Israeli born,Jew loves their ancestral home??…No..!! how could you. I have spent time there,Yes, Jews are special,Churchill called them the aristocracy of the human race.It will take more than Hamas terrorist atrocities prompted by comments such as yours..GODLESS NAZIONISTS to defeat their ‘Nefesh’ or ‘spirit’ …As far as the ‘slinking into oblivion’ riposte goes,I might remind you that the first shots fired by us in the second world war were by British soldiers at Jewish women and kids trying to flee Hitler and land on beaches in Israel…I think it was our poor old Britain who slunk from Palestine, into oblivion after 1948…but not before arming and officering the Jordanian legion whilst refusing Jewish demands for arms to defend themselves,expecting a nice tidy massacre and an end to the ‘Jewish problem’..so when a Briton such as yourself pokes your nose in and gives what is purported to be good advice and intellectual import I feel it is time to be rude…look at your own antheap, godless,broken society and compare it to Israel……..God,your Government has not even the balls to ban gangs of yobs wearing hoods,scarves and masks in public places……try that in Jaffa and some proud 17 year old IDF girl soldier would ‘react’ very fast…….o k Peter,…I am actually enjoying this site of yours…and at least you bother to reply…as Israel will, to every rocket attack…She will be there in 50 years…quite recognisable as a Jewish state…as for England ???….perhaps you need to shift your interest…Israel exists by resisting……England resists the will to exist…….as Anjem choudery so rightly recognises with glee…inshallah….
steve omara
August 18, 2011 at 7:31 pm
As I said, Israel is a wonderful nation populated by wonderful people apart from the rabid Nazionists who shame their fellow countrymen with their vile and brutal conduct.
The fact that you can’t distinguish a true friend of Israel and so indulge yourself in an hysterical and racist rant speaks volumes.
I supportbotghe the Israeli and Palestinian people, both of whom are equal under God. There are, of course, wicked people in Hamas but by far the greater evil is the Nazioinist gangsterism that is ruining the lives of both nations. Those monsters like Netanyahu and the Israeli government I place in the same category as Gadaffi, Assad, Hussein, Ahmajinedad, Stalin and Hitler. The world will be a far better place when they are gone and the people of Palestine and Israel can live together in peace.
Peter Reynolds
August 19, 2011 at 2:30 pm
Perhaps I should ask to see your credentials or resume before I deign to engage in discussion with you?
Just who do you think you are?
No, anyone is welcome to participate here providing they’re not abusive. I wouldn’t have the arrogance to impose your pomposity on my readers. Neither would I seek to impugn their ability or qualifications to join in. If you can hold your own you’re welcome.
I’m flattered now that you think enough of my credentials to offer me more of your opinion.
I do not need any poetic licence to describe Gaza as a concentration camp. I’d call that an accurate description.
I am proud to trust the BBC in its coverage. It is not perfect but it is the fairest, most balanced news coverage in the world.
Israel’s conduct in Gaza has come close to genocide at times. The intention is clearly there. I think the Israelis toy with the tolerance and patience of the world community all the time. That’s why they need to be watched like a hawk. Of course they haven’t committed the same kind of genocide as the Nazis. They know that that really would bring the Royal Navy to their end of the Mediterranean.
You can read in many of my other articles how I deplore the great evil that Islam has become but in the Middle East right now, it is Israel that is more at fault. Israel is the cause of much of the Islamist violence around the world.
As for this:
“Perhaps in your world the common refrain of ‘We’ll finish what Hitler started’ is acceptable. Perhaps the Hamas kindergarten ditty, ‘HAMAS! HAMAS! Jews to the gas!’ is suitable to you. I can provide you with well documented examples.”
These deliberately inflammatory words are beneath contempt.
Given its appalling behaviour, it is Israel that needs to act first to cease violence, recognise the Palestinian state and the integrity of its borders. Israel needs to stop the land theft, stop destroying Palestinian homes and stop the settlements.
Israel is the one that must act first.
Once these perfectly reasonable moves are made then the world will stand shoulder to shoulder with you against the unreasonable actions of the Islamists.
Until then Israel bears primary responsibility for the conflict.
Peter Reynolds
August 2, 2010 at 6:34 pm
Are their resumes really that “impressive”? Douglas Murray graduated from Oxford with an undergraduate degree in English, yet he thinks of himself as an august political commentator. Like all think-tanks, the research conducted by the CSC is poor quality and deliberated weighted in favour of the outcome. I just had a look at the “About Us” page on their website and Murray appears to be the only person currently mentioned.
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/about-us
I found this interesting
“As of the 1 April 2011 CSC personnel has joined the Henry Jackson Society. CSC will continue to operate as a non-partisan independent organisation specialising in studying radicalisation and extremism within Britain”.
For someone with a degree in English, he failed to correctly conjugate the verb “have”. No matter, the Henry Jackson Society is a neocon outfit that advocates military intervention in pursuit of ‘liberal’ objectives.
http://www.henryjacksonsociety.org/
And look at this list of signatories. I can see a few familiar names here, some of whom are members of the Conservative Friends of Israel and one current member of the Labour Friends of Israel. That said, the HJS is overwhelmingly Tory in composition
http://www.henryjacksonsociety.org/signatories.asp?pageid=36
buddyhell
August 23, 2011 at 8:51 am
Douglas Murray is a very, very nasty piece of work. He’s not that bright. He’s a bigot and a rabid zionist. The only explanation I can conceive of is that he’s shagging someone senior at the BBC. What other possible explanation is there for the excessive amount of airtime he is given?
Peter Reynolds
August 23, 2011 at 10:11 am
For sure. Him and his mob seem to have rather too much airtime on the BBC these days
buddyhellb
August 30, 2011 at 2:08 pm
[…] Sunday Morning Live, the question was asked – “Are we too tough on Israel”. This was brought to my […]
Foot-in “Loose Mouth” Cameron Goes Up In Flames in Pakistan (Via Turkey/USA/Gaza/Israel) « Tony Blair
August 2, 2010 at 12:55 am
Mr R – You ask – and I assume you are serious here:
“What can right-thinking, honourable and truthful people do to defeat such deception?”
So here’s a suggestion – LEARN ALL THE FACTS. Stop decieving yourself.
I’ve mentioned you in my latest post, in case you haven’t noticed.
http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2010/08/02/foot-in-loose-mouth-cameron-goes-up-in-flames-in-pakistan-via-turkeyusagazaisrael/
I’ve subscribed here too, PR. Though not sure how long you and I are going to remain pally, my ol’ friend, my old chum.
keeptonyblairforpm
August 2, 2010 at 1:00 am
I am afraid you lost all credibility with the “concentration camp” remark, PR. Not great PR for a self-confessed spinning salesman like yourself.
This, seriously, needs to be retracted.
At my site recently I got this comment:
_____
“Salam,
If you care for the gazan people:
a. Don’t send expired medication as this only cause trouble.
b. make sure you deliver through the UN or the Red Cross because otherwise goods are being confiscated by Hamas which just sell them on to raise money and this never goes to the people who needs it.
c. make sure it’s actually needed. A lot of people just assume everything is needed although many goods are being sold for half price than in egypt/jordan/lebanon because there is so much. So pay attention to what you choose to donate.
d. don’t listen to Hamas and Abbas because they steal everything they can and never invest the money in us. A lot of us work in the Israeli settlements, when you ban their products you are actually causing our people to lose a lot of their jobs.
Thank you
Salim Abdul-Karem (writing from Gaza)
_____
You can read it at my site here –
http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2010/05/31/gaza-flotilla-idf-ihh-cif-turkeyisraelinternational-fallout/comment-page-2/#comment-54331
keeptonyblairforpm
August 2, 2010 at 1:07 am
I have no doubt that Hamas is an evil organisation. When the Israelis lift the blockade and Gaza is allowed proper self-determination then the climate will be right for democracy to flourish. Until then the Israelis only have themselves to blame for what they have created. It’s hardly surprising that the Israeli brutality, oppression and violence imposed on Gaza has bred more of the same.
Peter Reynolds
August 2, 2010 at 1:21 pm
Israel actually got out of Gaza. Ther reward? Rockets and suicide bombers. How can you have open borders with a state that is dedicated to your destruction.
logos
August 2, 2010 at 10:31 am
Stop talking rot. Israel is a brutal, oppressive nuclear armed state that bullies and terrorises its neighbours. “It got out of Gaza” – what, you mean it retreated from its invasion then implemented a blockade and every now and then sends back in the tanks and F16s to kill a few more Palestinian children? That’s the truth.
If I lived in Gaza under the Israeli yoke, I would consider any tactics legitimate, just as the partisans and the resistance did against the Nazis in WWII. The rockets are puny little fireworks against the Israeli military behemoth. Suicide bombers are just as heroic as any suicide mission by commandos or special forces in WWII.
Israel was created and protected by the civilised world. It’s existence is not in any danger despite the hysterical rhetoric of Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah. It trains its 300 + nuclear war heads on its neighbours while it whines and whinges at those who resist its oppression. From being the victim of the world’s greatest ever crime against humanity, Israel has become as big and cowardly a bully as the world has ever seen.
The only real danger to Israel is iitself – its ludicrous, brutal and inhumane conduct. On that basis then Israel is doomed and deservedly so.
Peter Reynolds
August 2, 2010 at 11:15 am
The rockets and suicide bombers were Israel’s reward, not for “getting out of Gaza” (by hopping across the border and applying a lethal blockade from outside as well as maintaining control of Gazan airspace – which is why the UN still considers Israel to be responsible for Gaza) but for breaching the ceasefire which Hamas had, against all expectations, actually kept. You send in soldiers, you get rockets.
Rob
August 29, 2010 at 1:51 am
And as I’ve said many times before, what are a few little puny fireworks against tanks and F16s? If I was living in Gaza under the Israeli yoke, I would consider myself in exactly the same position as the Jews were in the Warsaw ghetto or the various resistance groups were against the Nazis.
Thanks for your comments Rob.
Peter Reynolds
August 29, 2010 at 12:42 pm
The Centre for Social Cohesion is a glaring example of Orwellian doublespeak.
http://buddyhell.wordpress.com/2010/08/02/two-examples-of-orwellian-thinking/
buddyhell
August 2, 2010 at 11:37 am
You are right about Douglas Murray and his cronies. I understand your cynicism about the Centre For Social Justice too but I think you’re less than generous to IDS for his sincere efforts. I agree that, like Michael Howard, he comes across badly (whose inane idea was it that either of them could ever be a good Tory leader?)
Socialists don’t have a monopoly on social responsibility you know. Caring Conservatism is a reality however much you may deny it.
Peter Reynolds
August 2, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Our commandos and special forces went for military targets. Suicide bombers DELIBERATELY go for the softest of civilian targets.
I’d like to know how we would react if these “puny fireworks” were being fired at British cities.
A typical suicide bomber goes into a crowded restaurant, sits next to where there are most people, be they women, children, old age pensioners, cripples etc etc and detonates himself or herself.
Apologists for them like you make me sick.
logos
August 2, 2010 at 1:17 pm
War is brutal and this is what the Israelis have forced on the Palestinian people. Both the Allies and the Nazis killed hundreds of thousands of civilians in WWII. War is evil. When your back is against the wall you fight to defend yourself in any way you can.
Israel is responsible for this. It was given life by the international community but immediately turned against justice and truth. The whole world pukes at Israel’s behaviour. We puke over Israel for its conduct and descent into shameless depravity.
Peter Reynolds
August 2, 2010 at 1:32 pm
You ignore the important issue of proportionality but that’s probably because you subscribe to the doctrine of “Might makes right”. When the commandos boarded the flotilla of aid vessels, did they act proportionally? How about the unarmed aid workers they shot in the head?
Exactly how many Israeli citizens have been killed by these homemade rockets in comparison to those Palestinians who’ve been killed by Israeli bombs. Were all of them ‘suicide bombers’?
That isn’t a trick question, by the way.
buddyhell
August 2, 2010 at 1:29 pm
There’s no doubt that Israel is harbouring war criminals in its military and political elite. I have no doubt that one day they will be brought to justice.
Peter Reynolds
August 2, 2010 at 1:40 pm
Proportionality be damned. If someone is taking potshots at me and is missing most of the time I don’t weigh up the proportionality of my response. I do what I can to make sure he doesn’t hit me when he gets his aim right.
logos
August 2, 2010 at 7:49 pm
You’ve just undermined you own ‘argument’. Bravo!
buddyhell
August 2, 2010 at 8:14 pm
Exactly! Rabbi Logos just described what its like to live in Gaza.
Peter Reynolds
August 3, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Where does Rabbi come from? Either you have identified my Jewish-sounding name from my email address or you automatically use that taunting prefix for anyone who sticks up for Israel? I recall the Blackshirt doing the same thing re. anyone with a Jewish-sounding name or who stuck up for the Jews. Clearly you have much in common with them when it comes to anti-semitism. Quite contemptible!
As for what it’s like to live in Gaza, yes Israel retaliates against rocket attacks and suicide bombers in such a way as to deter the Gazans from harbouring these killers in their midst. The alternative is to let them get away with it and for the Israelis to live under the constant fear of being attacked.
Well I’ve got news for you. Israelis (and Jews generally) have had enough of living like that. So when they strike back they srike back hard.
Logos
August 3, 2010 at 7:02 pm
You are right. I apologise. That was rude of me.
Nevertheless, you make the same point again. I can understand the fear and distress of Israelis living under threat of rocket attack. It’s the same for those living in Gaza. The solution is in Israel’s hands. It is most in the wrong.
As I said earlier in this thread:
Given its appalling behaviour, it is Israel that needs to act first to cease violence, recognise the Palestinian state and the integrity of its borders. Israel needs to stop the land theft, stop destroying Palestinian homes and stop the settlements.
Israel is the one that must act first.
Once these perfectly reasonable moves are made then the world will stand shoulder to shoulder with you against the unreasonable actions of the Islamists.
Until then Israel bears primary responsibility for the conflict.
I am not an anti-semite. In any case, all people of that region are semitic, Arab and Jew alike. I am not anti-Jewish or against the Israeli people. I am totally opposed to the Israeli government and the criminals in charge of it.
I apologise once again. I was rude to you.
Peter Reynolds
August 3, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Your remark was more than just rude. I think my description of it would have been more appropriate. Still, at least you had the integrity to apologize.
As for Israel making a unilateral first move, they did that when they withdrew from Gaza. Look what happened then. Didn’t see the international community standing shoulder to shoulder with them when Hamas took over with their Nazi type Charter and the rockets began falling on Israeli cities.
Btw I’ve made these and other points before, as have others. How about answering them for a change instead of just sounding off against Israel all the time?
logos
August 3, 2010 at 10:40 pm
No, sorry, those are weasel words. Israel invaded Gaza in the first place, then pulled its troops back to the border and turned it into the biggest concentration camp the world has ever seen. Whenever it feels like it tanks or air strikes are sent in to subdue any opposition. That is not a “unilateral withdrawal”.
Hamas was democratically elected. Obviously, it was not a fair election but how can you expect to have proper democracy in the conditions that prevail in Gaza? When Israel backs right off and leaves Gaza alone, only then will there be a chance for proper democracy to flourish. Israel is responsible for the way that Hamas fixed the elections and the way that it runs Gaza. Hamas is the equivalent of a tobacco baron in a British prison. It flourishes only with the tacit consent of Israel. While Gaza remains under blockade Hamas suits Israel’s agenda.
There, I’ve dealt with your points head on. I can tell that you’re passionate and sincere in your defence of Israel and I’m sure there’s a great country in there trying to get out. It’s going about it in all the wrong way though.
The way I see it, the West established Israel after WWII as an homeland for the Jews after the holocaust and centuries of oppression. The West has defended Israel ever since and would have done so ad infinitum.
Unfortunately, Israel’s behaviour has been dreadful. It has become the very thing which it was fighting against. It has built one of the most powerful military machines in the world which it has used to bully its neighbours. Its conduct since its inception raises all sorts of very uncomfortable questions about why the Jews were oppressed over so many centuries. What is it about Jewish behaviour that originally provoked such persecution? No civilised person can defend the persecution of the Jews but I am entitled to ask, given the way that Israel is now behaving, is there smoke without fire?
Israel is like a violent, out of control adolescent who has been given a powerful gun. It now needs to be brought back under control and disciplined. If not, then it will have sown the seeds of its own destruction. It will have become its own nemesis. It was safe and secure and protected but it has behaved too badly. Unless it reigns in its extreme tendencies then it is doomed and it will only have itself to blame.
Peter Reynolds
August 4, 2010 at 3:38 pm
It is yours that are the weasel words, Mr Reynolds.
Your understanding of the Gaza conflict is obviously limited to the version put out by Hamas propagandists.
Israel did NOT invade Gaza in the first place. The occupation of Gaza was a response to the 1967 invasion of Israel by the Arabs (their third invasion btw). Israel was willing to trade this land captured in a defensive war for recognition of the existence of Israel, as they did with the Egyptians and the Jordanians(even though by the laws of war they were entitled to hang on to terrority won in a defensive war). The Palestinians (and certainly the Gazans) refused to sign a Peace Treaty and despite all that and the violent opposition of the settlers in Gaza the Israelis still withdrew only to be rewarded as I’ve described.
Hamas originally took over in a coup. Yes they were then elected in an unfair election (as even you admitted) but even if it was fair a democratic election does not necessarily legitimise the actions of those who are elected (as the election of Hitler demonstrates).
Of course you can always blame the victims for forcing you to be nasty against them (as Hitler did with the Jews) and that seems to be exactly what you are doing with your question “what is it about Jewish behaviour that provokes persecution”. This question is even more contemptible than your “rabbi” taunt and if you stand by it you will be exposed as a Jew hater despite all your protestations.
I expect another apology if I am not to revise my opinion about your integrity.
Logos
August 4, 2010 at 7:29 pm
There is no apology due.
I know that I tread on delicate feelings but there is truth in there that you cannot deny. I abhor the persecution of the Jews as any decent human being must but I ask the question why? Where did it come from? Why did it start? I am not so intimidated by the fascism of political correctness that I will turn away from the truth.
I take as I find. I find the behaviour of Israel deeply worrying. It possesses certain distinctive and unpleasant characteristics. Why? Is this something to do with why the Jews managed to get themselves such a bad name in the first place? I don’t know. Can’t I ask the question without being accused of being a “Jew hater”?
What makes you so special? Why can’t I ask questions without having my honour, my good faith and my integrity impugned?
Peter Reynolds
August 4, 2010 at 10:32 pm
Why can’t you ask questions without having your honour and integrity impugned? Because that particular question impugned the honour and integrity of the entire Jewish race.
You are obviously not a decent sort chap after all.
logos
August 5, 2010 at 2:07 pm
No it doesn’t!
What is the matter with you? Why so ridiculously over sensitive?
Why can’t I ask this question?
Your reaction is very, very worrying and raises even more questions. Can’t you see you’re shooting yourself in the foot?
I want to understand. I’ve already made it clear to you that I deplore the persecution of the Jews. What is behind it? Why did it start in the first place?
One suggestion is that the Jews are blamed for the crucifixion of Christ but I know the Jews have suffered persecution at the hands of more than just Christians.
Really, Stan, let’s be sensible about this. I’m trying to have a sincere, important discussion with you. You’re reacting in a way that reflects precisely why there is so little understanding.
Peter Reynolds
August 5, 2010 at 2:51 pm
@ PR – “there’s no doubt”. Is that the new “we all know” speak?
From atop your high-horse is there any doubt that “Gaza/Hamas is also harbouring war criminals”?
I realise you won’t do this, as it goes against your ‘we all knowness’, but you really should read Melanie Phillips’ ‘The World Turned Upside Down.’ Free at a library. I’ve only just started to read it and it’s almost unputdownable.
To hell in a handcart is where this ‘Palestinian only’ empathy is taking the so-called civilised world – and the rest, which is, it would seem, the only parts that concern you.
Oh, by the way, do you have any thoughts on the Gazan who commented at my site? He and plenty of others WORK in Israel. He does not seem to think he is oppressed, starved or imprisoned. I’d appreciate your wisdom on this. Also, the huge modern shopping centre which opened there recently. Not bad, for a “concentration camp”.
http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2010/07/26/tony-blair-to-the-hague-for-the-messdisasterfolly-that-is-baghdad-today/
keeptonyblairforpm
August 2, 2010 at 10:21 pm
There’s no chance of ever getting away with anything with you, is there? You remind me of my old Latin master.
Later.
Peter Reynolds
August 2, 2010 at 10:41 pm
‘Altiora peto’ was our school motto. I/We Seek Higher Things.
And I/we still do. Don’t I/we, Pete, ol’ mate?
keeptonyblairforpm
August 2, 2010 at 11:59 pm
We certainly do John, we certainly do.
I don’t really have to go back and state the obvious again do I?
Oh, alright then, seeing as it’s you.
Of course there is wrong on both sides. Of course Hamas and Hezbollah are to be deplored. It’s about the greater good and/or the lesser evil. Neither side is without blame but it is Israel that’s most out of line. It’s Israel that needs to back down first.
Unfortunately I think its leaders are too gung-ho, ex-military, dumb, corrupt, hoist on their own petard, etc, etc. I don’t know what will break the impasse but something will. I just hope it doesn’t cost too many more lives.
Today I’m musing on two things:
1. Isn’t it about time the Pakis asked their chums in the Taliban for some help with the floods? Maybe they might find out who their real friends are then.
2. Look at all the pinko/green/lefties running around like headless chickens worried that the oil spill might not be as bad as they thought! Nature might have cleared it all up in a couple of years. Who’s going to pay for their professional whining and whinging then, eh?
Just for me, give Pauline a slap on that fine round arse of hers!
Peter Reynolds
August 3, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Look, Pete,
What’s all this business? You DO rant on a bit, don’t you. And you’re not PC enough to be a Tory, anyway. “Pakis”? FGS. You’re pushing it, me ol pal.
Glad to see you apologised to the “rabbi” anyway. He sounds a very sensible type. Now apologise to me for the suggestive talk about slapping. As if.
Good point too about answering some questions put to you. A statement is no more than a ‘state’ of mind, ‘meant’ to confound and compound ignorance. Just made that up. I suppose I should refine it, but you get the meaning, me ol China.
Cheers.
John
keeptonyblairforpm
August 4, 2010 at 2:13 am
I think we could do with more straight talking on such matters Peter. Something bad happens when we can’t express our disgust.
Modern concentration camps have their origin in business and the collection (concentration) of women who are abused to force their men to work – as in the ‘red rubber’ exploitations in Africa and South America.
Israeli propaganda is everywhere, but I also have a daughter over there not happy with rockets from Gaza.
allcoppedout
August 5, 2010 at 12:05 am
It’s a minefield isn’t it? I pity the people who have to live under Hamas’ rockets or Israeli F16s while the rest of us bicker, pontificate and argue. I pray your daughter stays safe.
Peter Reynolds
August 5, 2010 at 9:19 am
I can’t other than agree Peter. In the Middle East it’s common to hear suicide bombers referred to as ‘our F-16s’. I have been treated out there with great hospitality by all sides, even when sharing cigarettes and food with potential Taliban. Our daughter is more scared of the Russian exiles in Israel than the rockets.
I don’t know who is exploiting whom, but did see the issues whipped up by governments to elide other issues. There is much madness there and I doubt anyone gives a damn about the Palestinians. Their plight is a disgrace.
allcoppedout
August 13, 2010 at 2:23 am
Whether or not your comments on Israel and Gaza are fair and reasonable or not (I happen to think that they are), your comments on the Centre for Social Cohesion and on Douglas Murray most certainly are.
weayaya
August 5, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Thank you for that.
Peter Reynolds
August 5, 2010 at 7:00 pm
The thing is, not all the rockets that are fired from Gaza belong to Hamas as this article from Ha’aretz shows us.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-strikes-gaza-targets-after-grad-rocket-attack-1.260651
The Israelis would like us to think that this is a ‘struggle’ against ‘Islamism’ and will use the Hamas government in Gaza to bolster their case. The plain truth is that the Palestinian people continue to suffer from blockades, bulldozings and the theft of their land. It doesn’t matter who forms the government in Gaza, no one would be acceptable to the state of Israel.
buddyhell
August 5, 2010 at 3:10 pm
“It doesn’t matter who forms the government in Gaza, no one would be acceptable to the state of Israel.”
Well no one that it doesn’t control!
The only solution is a two state solution where both parties respect each other’s rights. Israel is the biggest obstacle to that at present because it insists on trying to control everything. The world (US, junior partner UK, infant partner Europe) is going to have to force Israel to grow up and start behaving itself.
Peter Reynolds
August 5, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Come off it Mr Reynolds. Explain how suggesting that Jews have brought persecutions on themselves in the context of a piece about how badly the Israelis have behaved is NOT questioning the honour and integrity of Jewish people as a whole.
Deploring persecutions while talking about no smoke without fire is like those who deplored 9/11 while talking about how the Americans had it coming to them.
DEPLORABLE!
logos
August 5, 2010 at 5:51 pm
Stan, you’re going to be owing me an apology soon because you’re wriggling and writhing, compromising your own integrity and avoiding answering a perfectly reasonable question.
OK, so I’ll engage with you on your comparison (even though you don’t deserve it). Why did 911 happen? What could America have done to avoid it (if anything)? Did America have any role in provoking it?
I’m not saying, obviously, that America deserved 911 but I am asking for a sensible analysis of the causes. What’s the matter with that? Why are you frightened of questions? You’re cutting off your nose to spite your face if you won’t address these issues.
Peter Reynolds
August 5, 2010 at 6:25 pm
I’ve already explained why you can’t ask this sort of question if you have a shred of decency and followed it up with a point for you to answer ( second sentence of my previous comment) which I note you have dodged in typical fashion.
logos
August 5, 2010 at 6:43 pm
You’re beyond reason!
You really are!
You’ve “already explained why you can’t ask this sort of question”?
What planet are you on?
The “question” in your last comment is preposterous. You want me to explain a negative – or is it a double negative?
Stan, you’ve lost the plot!
Peter Reynolds
August 5, 2010 at 6:59 pm
logos…I note you are trying to get sense from Reynolds…I will attempt to explain the tunnel vison complacency infecting his section of British liberal society. In order for Peter and his peers to be accepted by the current B.B.C.ethos, [by which all Britons are judged], certain beliefs are considered self evident and immutable.They are as follows; Israel has no right to exist. They have no knowledge of Chaim Weizmann and his chemical genius ,his method of producing acetone which kept our high seas fleet able to fire its big guns.This was one of many reasons for Jews being offered a recognised state of their own.The Arabs who received the 99% plus remainder of the old Turkish empire have never had their portions queried or debated.It is anathema for British liberals to reflect that the Hebrews were living in cities when London was a marsh. The other Liberal doctrines so ingrained in our society are a love and acceptance of terrorists whom we believe we can appease and whose views are aired regularly on our beloved B.B.C. Many Taliban dead are found to have football tattoos such as Manchester united,Spurs and Arsenal. Mr.Reynolds and his ilk would refer to these as ex pats or, our boys! There is the acceptance and tacit approval of muslim extremists marching in London .the favorite banner they carry says..ON YOUR KNEES BRITISH,THE MUJIHADEEN ARE COMING. Well, logos, Peter and his liberals are already on their knees mentally, the country craves integration and muslims naturally hate Jews ,the koran is insistent in this fact.You will never see or hear brave Mr. Reynolds criticising Islam,he has not got the guts,people have died trying.The Jews are an easy target,there is no recrimination likely,they are too civilised and have been for far longer than Peter and his posse would care to accept. There is NOTHING that the British can teach the Israelis,just look at the state of England ,oops, Britain,or, as British Muslim Lord Parekh stated unchallenged in his report. THE BRITISH MUST LEARN TO REGARD BRITAIN AS A PLACE NOT A RACE. Well, Israel will always be Israeli.,as for Britian,I regret, it is in the soft,cringing,frightened hands of Britlsh Liberals .
steve omara
August 28, 2011 at 5:52 pm
As what you think I stand for is entirely your own delusion, what purpose is there in engaging with you? Your words are for no other reason than your self satisfaction – so please, go jerk off in private.
Peter Reynolds
August 28, 2011 at 6:11 pm
” Many Taliban dead are found to have football tattoos such as Manchester united,Spurs and Arsenal. Mr.Reynolds and his ilk would refer to these as ex pats or, our boys! ”
Leaving aside your strange idea as to what Peter understands by “ex pat”, perhaps before going off on any more flights of fantasy you should do a little basic research: tattoos are totally forbidden in Islam (something about messing with how we were created by God). Breaking news: the Taleban are Muslims. (Next up: Steve tries to convince us that the Taleban are “tacitly Jewish” like his imaginary middle eastern Arabs.)
Funnily enough, Afghans (including the Taleban) are big on body-building, and pretty much every Afghan iron-pumping gym has a poster of Arnie on the wall. Though I suspect the Taleban had the posters removed when they were in charge!
Einekleinerob
September 1, 2011 at 9:19 am
buddy hell, the Israelis would be reasonably happy with a government in Gaza which at least engaged in the peace process as the previous government did before it was overthrown.
logos
August 5, 2010 at 6:01 pm
“As the previous government did before it was overthrown?” The previous government LOST an ELECTION. For what it’s worth they lost it both in Gaza (decisively) and in the West bank (more narrowly). In the West Bank Abbas was supported by Israel in mounting a coup to hold onto power, and was successful. In Gaza Israel and their puppet regime were unsuccessful.
Still, as you describe the 1967 war as an invasion by Arabs (strange then that the first act of the war was the bombing of Egypt’s airbases by the IAF) one can expect nothing more form you than the same tired old Hasbara we get from Ron Prosor et al.
Rob
August 29, 2010 at 2:03 am
Causality is the one word that many supporters of Israeli violence never use. Gaza has served as an ersatz prison camp for decades now. Hamas only came about as an extreme response to continued Israeli genocide. I notice how supporters of Israel deliberately overlook the warmongering, murderous nature of Likud and the ultra-religious parties and the settlers. In their minds the violence only flows in one direction.
buddyhell
August 22, 2011 at 8:25 am
Absolutely true. Israel only has itself to blame for the pressure cooker it has created in Gaza and the consequent rise of violent resistance. This is true meaning of the word “brutalise”. The treatment that Israel has imposed on the Palestinians has turned some of them into brutes. Israel is reaping what it has sown.
Peter Reynolds
August 22, 2011 at 9:52 am
Plenty of Jews are not at all happy with Israel – as one would expect of a cultured people.
allcoppedout
August 13, 2010 at 2:25 am
I’m sure that’s true. The non-Zionists desperately need some good PR and LEADERSHIP!!
Peter Reynolds
August 13, 2010 at 6:52 pm
yes Peter.there are indeed wicked people in Hamas….Tali Hatuel discovered that when gunmen from Islamic jihad stopped her car as she took her 4 daughters home from school ,they meticulously, shot to death, in cold blood, her daughters Hila [11]…Hadar [9]…Roni [7] ..Merav [2]…and of course ,these brave butchers, being the excuse for men that islam spawns,tacitly supported and encouraged by our intellectuals, carefully shot her unborn 8 month old girl baby .still in her womb ..then Tali herself………there are no words to describe this muslim filth……….Even pro muslim amnesty international called this a crime against humanity in 2004…however Islamic Jihad PROUDLY and publicly claimed it as a triumph of their brave islamic warriors…….but that was not the end of the affair Peter !!,..a week later the filthy terrorists attacked the memorial ceremony for Tali and the little dead kids…..and guess what…..they were dressed in muslim womens garb to make the attack possible………..I DESPAIR PETER AND SO, I THINK, DO YOU…
steve omara
August 20, 2011 at 8:16 pm
A sensationalist rant – and weren’t you taught punctuation in school?
I do not deny the tragedy of your tale but it is presented with such bias and prejudice. For every story of Israeli tragedy, there are a dozen from Palestine. Israel is the oppressor and bears overall responsibility for the brutality on both sides. History will judge Israel very, very harshly. There is only one real threat to Israel’s continuing existence and that is the vile Zionists themselves.
Peter Reynolds
August 22, 2011 at 9:57 am
So, the tragedy of Tali Hatuel to you is a just a sensationalist rant..?? I await the dozen similar stories which you intimate actually exist….I need to hear of women and children being targeted ,precisely and murdered with the kind of inhuman gusto exhibited here….I am slowly getting to understand your psyche Peter…that is the enjoyment of this site..I regret, that you probably secretly admire the actions of the 7/7 and 9/11 bombers even the Beslan “freedom fighters” as ultimately caused by and soon to laid at the door of, those vile Zionists….and you worry about my education..wow………
steve omara
August 26, 2011 at 7:25 pm
You must explain to us how the wicked Hamas gunmen first shot the “unborn baby still in the womb” and only then shot “Tali herself”. Clearly your knowledge of physiology is on a par with your geography and history: or did your Talmudic studies lead you to conclude that evil Muslim bullets miraculously teleport themselves into their targets?
Einekleinerob
September 1, 2011 at 8:41 am
The murder of Tali Hatuel and her daughters has, as you say, been classified by Amnesty International as a “crime against humanity”, so you won’t find me disagreeing with you about that: but if Amnesty is “pro-Muslim” I must have imagined the hundreds of letters I sent at their behest protesting human rights abuses by Islamic governments and Islamic terrorists alike in Pakistan and Bangladesh back when I was an active local group member.
You correctly state that the murders were carried out by Islamic Jihad, so why do you bring them in as evidence that there are wicked people in Hamas? That is like moving from being appalled by Baruch Goldstein’s Hebron mosque terror attack to blaming it on Likud because he was Jewish settler and Likud is a Jewish party. And before you claim that Hamas were really responsible because they are the government in Gaza, actually at the time when the murders took place Israel was still in full occupation of Gaza, so one might more reasonably blame the Israeli government. See where your collective responsibility nonsense gets you? Murder is murder; murdering cowards are murdering cowards; Islamic Jihad is not Hamas.
EineKleineRob
September 2, 2011 at 2:04 am
So tell us, expert on Israel, how British soldiers at the start of WW2 could fire on Jews trying to land on beaches in Israel when there would be no such country for another eight years. You are truly pathetic.
Einekleinerob
August 24, 2011 at 11:02 am
Education time Einekleinenob ..British soldiers fired their first shots, in anger, following the start of the second world war on Jewish refugees trying to land in the place,actually named, IN THE BIBLE as Eretz Yishrael…Hebrew [you may have heard of that language]..interprets as The Land of Israel..This is the name these unfortunates,soon to be returned to Germany would have acknowledged as being their goal…..You need to study history..it is exciting..so may dilettantes here…but I revel in the cut and thrust of this debate..wish I had more time……It is is good to see such interest in Israels future..and yes she has one !!!
steve omara
August 26, 2011 at 7:01 pm
If Israel existed in 1939, please tell me:
– where its borders were located
– what political system it had
– who was its prime minister
– where its embassies in the UK, USA and France were located
– the exchange rate of its currency against the pound
– how many Israeli passports it issued that year
– what structure its armed forces had
= and perhaps most relevantly to your ignorant comment, why those armed forces permitted British forces onto an “Israeli” beach to shoot Jews.
When I require “education” on matters of twentieth century geography I generally find a map to be of more use that a book of ancient myths. It is of no interest to me whether the Jews attempting to land illegally believed they were entering Israel or the wonderful land of Oz (I nearly wrote “Narnia”, but in 1939 neither Narnia nor Israel had yet been invented).
However, if you base your approach to Middle Eastern geography on biblical fantasy then your utter cluelessness is readily explained.
EineKleineRob
August 31, 2011 at 12:30 pm
Steve – can you find me a reference for your “first British shots of WW2” story? I’ve tried Googling it using every combination of search terms I could think of and haven’t found any such incident. I’m not suggesting that you made it up, merely that I’m having trouble finding it. I don’t have to believe that Israel existed in 1939 to be interested in a story that would definitely be an embarrassment if not indeed a war crime.
EineKleineRob
September 2, 2011 at 2:25 am
This is s reply to Logos @ #8 “A typical suicide bomber goes into a crowded restaurant, sits next to where there are most people, be they women, children, old age pensioners, cripples etc etc and detonates himself or herself.”
Actually that isnlt typical at all: mostly the suicide bombers are attacking IDF posts and vehicles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks
But live in your fantasy world of Israeli innocence and victimisation if it comforts you.
EineKleineRob
August 31, 2011 at 12:15 pm
Peter – I see this whol esub=-post about the CSC, and its comment thread, are hidden from profane view now. Has the same censorship pressure been applied that forced you to take down your earlier post on Nazionism or have your cannabis campaign attacked?
EineKleineRob
August 31, 2011 at 12:17 pm
Of course it is impossible for a westerner.to understand the Nefesh or spirit of a Jew and especially the “Sabra” Israeli.These people can trace their ancestry back to Babylon .Israel was mentioned by the Egyptians in 1200 B.C. Even the Qur’an [ 17:104] states unequivocably,”The children of Israel SHALL dwell SECURELY in the promised land. Are you ‘rob brave enought to query the koranic word of God?,that was a rhetorical question,of course NO modern Englishman or European would DARE to mess with the book of “love”. I proudly exclude Douglas Murray from that fellowship of the “white feather”. Not as though modern Israelis need muslim or British approval,God forbid,or in your case, Allah…Many extant Arab tribes that inhabit the middle east are tacitly Jewish,with Jewish traditions. It is not safe or healthy to be an infidel or a jew in most, if not all muslim wonderlands.Israel was promoted by Britain to protect the suez canal.Zionism provided a foothold for England in the middle east.Jewish loyalty held firm when the arabs swung towards Hitler, If you are not too busy knocking Israel check out the iranian S.S…..no..I guess it is easier to follow the liberal herd .
steve omara
August 31, 2011 at 7:03 pm
“Are you brave enough to query the Koranic word of God?” I’m sorry, what part of “on matters of twentieth century geography I generally find a map to be of more use than a book of ancient myths” did you not understand? It makes no difference to me whether the myths are in Hebrew, Arabic or Chinese.
A pity you were unable to answer the questions you were asked though: I would have loved to know who Israel’s PM was in 1939.
And I note that as well as accusing Peter of being a “lefty” you now accuse me of being a Muslim. Mind you, you seem to imagine that “many extant Arab tribes that inhabit the middle east are tacitly Jewish, with Jewish traditions”. What, like circumcision? (A propos which, despite your attempt at humour in naming me einekleinenob recently – funner than KTBFPM’s desperate wisecracks at least – I remain proudly intact.)
Einekleinerob
September 1, 2011 at 8:59 am
You are out of touch with reality ! The British muslim riff raff who our soldiers kill in Afghanistan etc have been found to have tattoos…it is on the internet. I talk with soldiers in Canterbury who have seen more than one tattooed, British exported terrorist, dead and gone to Allah.Our political masters prefer to keep their liberal hand wringing supporters in the dark ,therefore full embarrassing details will not be aired by the B.B.C..,… go check on the pc the following Sawarka Bedouin Jews Taliban football tattoos Now to Israel ..Ben Gurion was chairman of the Jewish agency in 1939 the de facto leader of the country.,His appointment mirrored Churchill’s “white paper” 1922, which reaffirmed the 1917 declaration ,Churchill’s words, A JEWISH NATIONAL HOME SHALL BE FOUNDED IN PALESTINE,THE JEWISH PEOPLE WILL BE IN PALESTINE AS OF RIGHT AND NOT ON SUFFERANCE. You ask why the Jewish militia allowed British soldiers to force desperate immigrants back to sea at the point of their bayonets ? Ben Gurion was a strong leader .He could fight England or Hitler,so he bided his time.He was a profound statesman and he had a long memory. He was the equal of our Churchill…His crowning glory? He got the Bomb for Israel.
steve omara
September 1, 2011 at 8:58 pm
I believe you make my point for me. In 1939 Ben Gurion was chairman of the Jewish Agency “de facto” leader of a country which would not exist for another nine years, and no amount of biblical quotation from you will alter that historical fact. And should I take your lack of a link for the story about British soldiers forcing desperate immigrants back to sea at bayonet point (in 1939) to be an admission by you that it’s fictitious? I know there were similar instances after the war, but by then those soldiers were suffering murderous attacks from Jewish terrorist groups almost every day and would hardly welcome potential terror recruits. If you have a link for the 1939 incident provide it, otherwise take your biblical fantasies and play on your own.
EineKleineRob
September 3, 2011 at 12:32 pm
EKrob….will find the root of the story re first shots fired by Brits…..will get back to you!!
steve omara
September 3, 2011 at 2:57 am
Rob’ for details of shooting enter in pc the following tiger hill tel aviv this throws up link .. 1 keller menachem nickname yotam etc..scroll down till u get to paragraph which starts with words.. catriel yaffe was the captain of this ship……..regards steve….P.S. even more disturbing is the story of the S.S. STRUMA…
steve omara
September 3, 2011 at 3:22 am
Thank you. The story (with less detail) also appears in the wikipedia entry for Aliyah Bet.
I have to say that as the link you directed me to is by someone who admits to being involved in anti-British terrorism it’s hardly surprisng that a ship from his organisation was fired on at night. Still, firing on a ship in the dark (killing two people) is not quite the same as forcing people back to sea at bayonet point, is it? One, after all, would be a legitimate act of defence and the other a war crime. I suppose if you can’t find a real example of British troops forcing Jewish refugees on board ship at bayonet point the next best thing is to make one up, link to an article about something vaguely similar and hope nobody follows the link and exposes you. To save you from looking again, when the Tiger Hill landed all the refugees went ashore without opposition. Nice try though.
EineKleineRob
September 18, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Rob,Interesting comments. The day an Israeli stops a car full of Muslim women and kids and systematically slaughters them in cold ? [muslim” hot”] blood .then Rob, I promise you I will review my support of Israel. Perhaps, if in the next Olympic games an Israeli murder squad kills an Arab team then ditto,or, perhaps a plane load of civilians is blown up by israelis…….no, it is not going to happen is it? There is a difference between muslims and EVERYBODY else…..we ,you ,me and Peter are infidels..we are Najis that is NAJIS,The entire body of a kafir including hair nails and all liquid substances of our bodies are anathema to all the “faithful”,You must stop one day and contemplate the immutable fact that if you breathe or touch or get close enough to talk to a Muslim then he becomes NAJASAT, DIRTY AND MUST RITUALLY CLEANSE HIMSELF AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.How any right thinking man can sympathise with these cro=magnons worries me. However ,to be fair, I read and digest your comments.
steve omara
September 3, 2011 at 3:14 pm
If the best thing you can find to support in Israel is that it slaughters women and children via war crimes rather than terrorist attacks then there’s not much more to say. Jewish (pre-Israel) terrorists were happy enough to bomb civilians to get what they wanted (ie Israel). And several plots by Zionist terrorists to detonate bombs and indeed assassinate a US Senator were foiled by the FBI in the 1990s.
Do tell me your source though for the “immutable fact” about Muslims becoming unclean by talking to non-Muslims. To save you coming out with more misleading drivel, SOME Muslim jurists who are SHIAS hold that unbelievers are unclean. This means that Shias following their teaching would have to wash their hands, feet etc before praying. But hey, Muslims all do that anyway to remove any traces of uncleanness, for example sweat. No special purification is needed after touching, or indeed having sex with, a non-Muslim: just the regular ritual washing. I’m not sure where you get the idea that talking to someone counts as contact, but the same would apply in any case.
It’s possible of course that any Muslim would feel the need to scour himself/herself with bleach after talking to you for a few minutes. Hell, I feel dirtied just by reading the lying filth you post on Peter’s blog. But the difference is not between Muslims and everybody else: it’s between you and everybody else. How any decent Cro-Magnon could be seen talking to you is certainly a mystery.
EineKleineRob
September 18, 2011 at 12:27 pm
Hi Eineklein….Yes, as usual, with the muslim apologist type, the truth hurts..go get a koran ,read it ,all the way through,assimilate the content carefully.Do not say you already have ! .Your lack of Qu’ran knowledge is normal on here.If you take the time to talk to a Muslim,that is one who will actually be honest with you he will tell you, categorically, the following. All Infidels are below dogs and insects,NAJIS, Dogs and insects know nothing of allah and can be forgiven.Infidels ,such as you Rob, however have no such excuse. Rob,your head is shoved too far up the islamic cloaca. Perhaps from that sycophantic standpoint you should be granted temporary membership of the select Muslim Umma.However be careful not to talk to a Muslim man’s wife or daughters EVER. You must learn the truth of your standing in the Islamic order.You Rob will never be fit to breathe the same air as a real Muslim. Nothing I say on here, in respect to Peter ,who I disagree with mostly too, and whose site it is, IS A LIE. I either know or research carefully all points of discussion .You Rob blunder blindly about with an un-studied Qu’ran shoved in your back pocket to impress um’ your new masters.INSHALLAH
steve omara
September 18, 2011 at 5:18 pm
So what do we think of 30 pro Palestinian activists spoiling a BBC prom attended by 5,600 citizens.Lets face facts, just one “activist” would have done the trick.Islam holds this country in the palm of its hand. Anjem Choudary Islam4UK at least is honest, there is no opposition because there are no men in this country.Regretfully these British autocthonous cowards will produce a new generation of bigger B.B.C. liberalised, limp wimps. God help Britain,perhaps the women will do something before sharia police are patrolling the streets of London. Its time to name your sons Mohammed, it will curry favour with your new overlords…
steve omara
September 3, 2011 at 9:32 pm
No Steve. They were doing a proud, just and honourable job. The Israeli state should not be able to cloak itself in some quasi-cultural-respectability when, in fact, it is in the same category as Syria or Iran.
Peter Reynolds
September 3, 2011 at 9:49 pm
I have a couple of problems with the Prom demo. The Israel Philharmonic is not particularly tied to the IDF or the settlements: its members come from all walks of israeli life (there may well be non-Israeli members too, I havenlt checked). It was different a year or two back when the Jerusalem Quartet came to Edinburgh: they were sponsored by the IDF and came as IDF Cultural Ambassadors, proud – as they put it – to “play with a violin in one hand and a Galil in the other”. The IPO hold no such brief, and have earned themselves death threats for playing Wagner in Israel, for example. So I don’t see them as a legitimate target unless you wish to boycott everything Israeli without exception, which I don’t.
Then of course there is the method of protest. Here again the protestors missed the point. OK, try to get the BBC to rescind the invitation if you wish. Leaflet people, stand outside with loudhailers. But protesting inside the concert (a) is screwing with folk who are basically just earning a living and (b) to do it you have to buy tickets, thereby subsidising exactly what you claim to be boycotting. DUH! I suppose the BBC may have permanent hard-wiring into the RAH, but if not, then the PSC guys could have got huge publicity and the arrests they were clearly hoping for by attacking the recording/transmission trucks outside. No ticket needed, bring your own angle-grinder.
So proud, check, honourable, check, misdirected, check, stupid, check. Heigh ho.
EineKleineRob
September 18, 2011 at 12:43 pm
Ok Peter re; the proud, honourable job “done” by the disruptors at B.B.C. prom. Muslim colonizers here are fully aware of the power that they wield without redress over huge numbers of British citizens. This is thanks to your Liberal emasculation of English men. It is time for you to realise the implications inherent in your support of our inchoate Islamic state .The Muslim council of Great Britain will be encouraged to vet all public gatherings such as promenade concerts,[job done] sport venues,clubs,pubs,dance halls.fetes,carnivals swimming baths,anywhere that there may be some element of Jewish complicity in the guise of staff or financial involvement.Of course the mixing of sexes is a big stumbling block and anathema to our new masters “Deengeld” [deen, the arab “code of life”…coming your way soon! A play on the original Danegeld ,British appeasement at its best] This bribery might work after all they are arabs.
steve omara
September 4, 2011 at 1:35 pm
You really should be on the stage Steve. You get me chuckling almost from the first word.
We live in a secular society and neither Islam, Judaism, Christianity nor Paganism (all of which I hold in the same contempt) are going to be vetting anything. What we really have to be concerned about is how corporate and financial institutions are gaining improper influence.
Peter Reynolds
September 4, 2011 at 3:56 pm
Hi Rob..yes interesting comments about Tiger Hill affair. I will defend my position here. The whole reason for mentioning Tiger Hill was to point out the fact that the FIRST use of shooting by the British in the second W.W. was on UNARMED refugees. The Jewish brigade fought for Britain,that is why Israel was formed ,to protect the Suez canal,and as a profound thanks to Weizmann for synthetic acetone.It is likely that this was CRITICAL to the first W.W. success.The Jews EARNED their half of one percent of the old Turkish Empire ,especially when you realise the Iranians formed 3 Waffen S.S. Divisions in the same war and they got a larger slice of the Sykes Picot cake.I make it eighty times bigger than Israel.Of course you doubtless support Iran in her coming war with israel .You will probably never realise till too late that the Arab/Muslim world is your mortal enemy. The Cowardly Liberals that infest England hope that by throwing Israel to the Muslim wolves they MIGHT curry favour. Appeasement MIGHT work this time but the sign carried at the last big Muslim rally in London which read “ON YOUR KNEES ENGLISH ,THE MUJIHIDEEN ARE COMING” is profoundly prophetic,no one objected,British men scurried away in embarrassment,they know their new place….O.K. Israel IS doomed, the Israeli hierarchy are fully aware that there will be very few survivors ,women or children ESPECIALLY not excepted,your mates in the PLO and Hamas will do your work well . I was in Israel 2010 on an army base near Tel Aviva . I can guarantee that when this next war begins ,almost certainly with Iran first ,the result will turn the Middle east into a large ashtray. I intend to be there with my colleagues to the bitter end . Better that than cringing in limp, lefty England,being enthralled by the overpowering rhetoric of Liberty’s Ms.Chakrabarti and the likes of Anjem Choudary. Watch the link DOUGLAS MURRAY PADDY ASHDOWN listen to Ashdown,watch him wring his hands and hold his head,whining over Bin ladens death and the sad lack of full Muslim burial rites afforded the mass murderer.You will understand Ashdowns mentality,He epitomised the Englishman of today.
steve omara
September 18, 2011 at 3:48 pm
Rob,WOW, I found myself agreeing with you over the B.B.C. prom….perhaps this site is producing results…and dammit I now almost regret abusing you on previous comment…
steve omara
September 18, 2011 at 5:26 pm
Wow: Israel was formed to protect the Suez Canal and as thanks for Chaim Weizmann’s discovery of a fermentation method of acetone synthesis (BTW it was already obsolete by the time Israel was invented). Who would have guessed it? I mean, the whole “homeland for the Jewish people” thing, the sympathy over the Holocaust: irrelevant according to you.
I didn’t know Israel was about to declare war on Iran, though i think it;s the only country in the region it hasn’t yet either declared war on or launched sneak peacetime attacks on, so i suppose there is a kind of “because it;s there” logic to your suggestion. Sadly I don’t think Iran has nuclear weapons to combat the ones Israel will presumably use against it. However, if Israel does become the second country in history to use nuclear weapons it willm as you say, become an ashtray as the rest of the world (including, I hope, Britain) dispose of their own nuclear arsenals into the region’s most belligerent theocracy. if you intend to stand firm with plucky little Israel as it is melted to slag, don’t imagine that I would wish to stop you. I shan’t be dancing in the streets, but I won’t give a shit if another Nazi is vaporised. Mazel Tov, motherf*cker.
EineKleineRob
September 21, 2011 at 1:33 am
Oh dear ,acetone synthesis probably saved England in the FIRST WORLD WAR ,Without it her High Seas Fleet would have been unable to use their big guns. Israel declared itself a state AFTER the second W.W. You Rob who pretends to understand the Middle east and Israel must read three seminal books at least. they are as follows. “ORIENTATIONS” by Ronald Storr, Lawrence of Arabia had the ultimate respect for this Arabic and Hebrew linguist. “TRIAL AND ERROR” the autobiography of Chaim Weizmann.Sorry Rob but this chap is a Jew and Zionist . You will feel morally and intellectually superior to him naturally because of these facts.However I know his intellect was very superior to anyone chatting on here. and last “FROM BABEL TO DRAGOMANS:INTERPRETING THE MIDDLE EAST” by Bernard Lewis.Then and only then will your bitter,but interesting, Muslim-centric opinion begin to be of value. Eventually I will consider you an equal contestant and we can really split the hairs of Allas beard. As far as “NAZI” taunts go I do not suppose with your current level of knowledge that you have read of the IRANIAN WAFFEN S.S.Divisions,raised and used in the 2nd W.W.or the propinquity of Hitler and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.You may be forgiven,it is a big subject, Now the question of Nuclear conflict.Well.England ,[oh sorry, must not call it that,you were emasculated] Britain, has not the balls to use nuclear weapons.we both secretly know that. Israel however has twice destroyed nuclear facilities ,Iraq 1981 and Syria 2007,[Deir ez Zor]. The Israelis believe that the men in a country should put the fate of their women and children first.They will defend them to the ultimate degree..I heard Mrs.Manningham-Buller explaining this week about the British secret service response to “Islamic” terrorism,[ can i say that, or do i say “British born chappies with a grudge against the country that pays their dole money, who are rightly upset by Israel’s existence and must not be blamed for killing infidels on trains and buses because they are NAJIS anyway]. Manningham-Buller head of M.I.6, it seems knew about the 7/7 terrorists for several years but their human rights had to be “respected”it would have caused uproar in the Islamic community if they had been questioned,detained or had their plans interfered with in any way. It was “unfortunate that they killed some Londoners,but the rule of law was upheld as far as their individual rights to act as they thought fit, were concerned. WOW ! you people hold your manhood cheap,as Shakespeare would say,too shit scared to protect your women and children’s lives in case you upset your new Islamic masters.INFANDOUS OAFS ! give me a gutsy, Zionist, Sabra anyday..You even had to re-route the Wootton Basset military event because your new masters objected .Have you got you Koran yet..they will send you free one over the internet, might be a good idea to ingratiate yourself Rob.they actually keep lists of pet infidels..don’t feel ashamed ,even Tony Blair’s sister in law ,Lauren Booth has converted to Islam. so you are in good company .as Julius Caesar [I think} said..Cowards die many times before their deaths…….EREV TOV…..proper Ivrit..real name for Hebrew. regards …see..NAJIS THINGS 84
steve omaraski
September 21, 2011 at 4:22 am
I know when Weizmann came up with his acetone synthesis, which is why I pointed out that it was obsolete by the time of the invention of Israel. I am familiar with the Israeli sneak attack on Iraq’s nuclear reactor, which is why I mentioned it. You should try reading before dishing out booklists. While as usual the bulk of your comment is irrelevant fantasy, I did love your idea that England was “emasculated” by becoming “Britain”. As James VI of Scotland became King of England because Elizabeth I died without issue I would have said that England became “masculated”. But then, what do you know about Britain? Or England? Or history?
Einekleinerob
October 15, 2011 at 9:27 am
Of course acetone was irrelevant by 1948..You ,however, typically, forget that without Weizmann’s genius, ALL British naval guns would have had to undergo “far reaching changes” and this recall of ALL battleships for gun re-design was essential during a World war in which the Royal Navy was our ace card.The British gunnery, institutionally far below German standards would have had to be adapted and re-taught. Would it have been possible with the stone age mentality of the Admiralty, bearing in mind the last great test was Napoleon.? You remember Churchill’s famous words to Weizmann when the debalcle was realised ?, WELL.Dr.WEIZMANN, WE NEED THIRTY THOUSAND TONS OF ACETONE.CAN YOU MAKE IT ?..It occupied Weizmann for two years. Churchill gave him carte blanche,resulting in facories in India,Canada and America,this last and biggest run by one of Weizmann’s students,Speakmann.sorry Rob,another damn Jew. One could postulate that these damned Jews saved England ,is that pc enough for you Rob or should I say Britain. As for “sneaky” attacks on OSIRAK,AL- KHIBAR and BUSHEHR and of course the “bunker buster” sneak attack due on Iran soon,I am laughing with despair at “British” sensibilities. You sad, liberal,sanctimonious,frightened,handwringing ,conscientous objectors watched and followed the 7/7 bombers for a couple of years ,too emasculated by self imposed political correctness to pre-empt the killing of your citizens…I guess the lives of Britons are held cheap like their manhood..remember Henry V,act 4 scene 3 ?….Well Israeli citizens are treasured and protected just as the English were in Queen Victoria’s reign . It is amazing what mental inertia has overcome this nation on its inevitable,B.B.C. orchestrated slide, into the bosom of Islam….Oh, Rob ,Ken Bigley was actually murdered by Mossad…enough said….!!!
omarski
October 15, 2011 at 1:05 pm
Sorry, I omitted the other crowning glory of your deranged fantasy, which is that “they actually keep lists of pet infidels”. Which “they” exactly? The worldwide Islamic conspiracy that exists in your head? Or some “actual” group of “actual” Muslims (of course, the only ones you consider real Muslims are the few dozen terrorists who fit your ideal profile, presumably based on the perfect West Bank Jewish “settler”). Is any conspiracy theory too wild for you?
Einekleinerob
October 15, 2011 at 11:10 am
Oh poor Rob, In Islamic belief, ALL humans are actually born Muslim, but are perverted by infidel parents .You are already there..well done B.B.C. and magic roundabout.
omarski
October 15, 2011 at 1:13 pm